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Forum:Unit Movement
Continued from Realms Beyond It goes wrong on overland map, you've seen the chart from in-game, so in result, we have no sailing, and absurd swimming/walking! The point is, waves indicate swimming unit, and there's no clear distinction of swimming and sailing units on the wiki. ~Twilight What do you see after the "Moves" when you see this image in the game? Do those waves mean the unit is a swimming unit? I mean THOSE waves NOT any other waves that you might find elsewhere!! MysticX2 (talk) 10:21, August 8, 2013 (UTC) :Yes, those. Damn it, the thing that goes after moves doesn't include special image for sailing, I know, but damn it, look at the chart from in-game. That guy from Realms Beyond also noted that this lack of image at moves probably refers to combat movement, and there are no land tiles if the combat happens on the water. :Now we've been talking about where it actually matters - overland. And there, look, it's noted as Sailing! While other effects from the chart are some kind of special modifiers, Walking, Sailing, Swimming and Flying are more general, as they restrict and allow movement at some tiles. :We could keep the "waves" image for Sailing unit's movement, as it is in, it's right, because of unit info screen. But we must mark them as sailing units, and remove that chaotic nonsense Swimming/Walking is, then everything's going to be okay. The only thing we should do is change the template a little, so there's a waves image which links to Swimming and waves image which links to Sailing. Will not be much pages to edit, only those of Sailing and Swimming units. So the system is not changed hard way, Sailing picture with boat is not used, overland movement not noted by picture, but still fine for me. Twilight Sparkle the Alicorn Princess (talk) 11:26, August 8, 2013 (UTC) Yeah, it didn't make me think swimming either. Every unit in the game has a similar info window, available both on the Overland and in Combat. When I first started and I looked at the info on that window all I was concerned with was if it moved on the ground, on the water or in the air and the info window gave me that information. There were only three choices represented in the entire game, and that was what I was concerned with. The wiki infoboxes provide the same information that the window does, using the same images that window does to represent ground, water, or air. REGARDLESS of what else you might be able to find out about the unit from somewhere else in the game or on the wiki, the info window exists and should not be dismissed or ignored. I payed little attention to anything else in the game until more recently. The wiki should be understood by very new players as well as very seasoned players (and those that work on the game code). That is why we attempt to use the same images that the game uses when possible. As I've explained before, the three icons used on the wiki only represent the terrain (there may be a better word for it) and if you are simply viewing the page it seems to me that they do that well. They DO NOT represent movement type altho links are provided in the code to the MOST COMMON movement type for that terrain. Just looking at the page you wouldn't know that, so I will guess that it isn't the appearance but the fact that on four pages that link isn't linked to the accurate movement type. The icon codes are: movement|ground|text, movement|water|text, movement|air|text. Regardless of what clicking for more information in the game, or on the wiki or searching in the code, will reveal the purpose of our templates is to quickly represent the number of steps/moves a unit can make in a turn. Like I said, all that mattered to me was that a unit could move on water or not; and regardless of what I know now about movement types, and that the swimming icon is very similar to the water movement icon that is used here, I try to remember that not everyone has the more advanced knowledge of the game and what the window meant to me when I first started playing the game. Again, the templates used here have NOTHING to do with movement types. Possible solutions, 1) Create a new template for sailing (your preference, but not as simple as it sounds); 2) Change the text for the water movement icon, again not as simple as it sounds, but easier than a new template, or 3) add a section to the pages that need it, to explain better their movement types (believe it or not, this is the simplest of the three and should be done anyway). I tried to change the water template text to say Swimming/Sailing, but that will create a link to one page instead of two for both movement types. From my research it seems that there is a way to give two options for a link, but I can't seem to get that to work. I continue to research that and other possible solutions. Are there other options? MysticX2 (talk) 09:56, August 9, 2013 (UTC) Just an example, to me the use we make of the icons is no different than if I wanted to link to Food using the icon but I wanted it to show Farmer I would use , the internal is Food|Farmer. Does that help? MysticX2 (talk) 12:58, August 9, 2013 (UTC) Swimming/Walking This is related to the discussion above, but is a very separate issue. Because I see our templates as terrain, and NOT as a movement type, I don't consider the boot/wave images on the Lizardmen pages and four Non-Corporeal creature pages as creating a new movement type. I view the use of both icons as more visually representative, and since I don't view the wave icon as representing a swimming unit, I don't think the use of both icons as egregious and absurd nonsense (to paraphrase). When the movement types are explained on those pages (to be discussed below) I know that the swimming movement type will explain Lizardmen movement completely with only one movement type image (that is very similar to our water icon). It seems that knowing all about movement types is causing some frustration with our icons, and in this case the use of two icons for one unit. It's like the old pro that has forgotten what it was like the first time. I am concerned that Twilight is going to have a stroke due to her frustrations with this issue. It seems to me that if two different icons had been used, say a globe and a glass of water, there would be no problem. Yet the question remains, does the use of the two icons confuse or confound anyone besides Twilight and is it because you see the wave as a swimming movement type? MysticX2 (talk) 11:44, August 9, 2013 (UTC) Movement Types This section is for discussing yet unwritten movement types. Movement types are displayed in game when clicking on the images after Moves in the image above and when selecting a unit for action (displaying the Command Box, is there a better name for it) as represented in the images below. These images are used because the unit info window displayed in the game (as above) use the same terrain in that window with the specific movement in the command box. MysticX2 (talk) 10:50, August 8, 2013 (UTC) This pertains to the unwritten Movement Type page which will cover the basics for Walking, Swimming, Sailing, and Flying. The Movement Type page will also include basic information for Unit Abilities that have already been written: Mountaineer, Forester, Pathfinding, and Planar Travel. These unwritten pages also present some need to re-visit some unit pages and update parts of those. MysticX2 (talk) 11:15, August 8, 2013 (UTC) Does anyone know the file name of the game file with the movement type images? MysticX2 (talk) 09:57, August 9, 2013 (UTC) Specific pages that need correcting This section is for noting (quoting lines) that need to be changed on certain pages. For the moment ignore the Lizardmen pages. Please do not change pages that haven't been discussed. MysticX2 (talk) 11:15, August 8, 2013 (UTC)